Building Indiana’s Future: Daryl Williams-Dotson on Affordable Housing & Missing Middle Design

Quinton Comino: Hello. My guest today is Miss Darryl Williams-Dotson. She’s an architect out of Indianapolis. She’s got a team under her. She’s been doing this for over thirty years and has a ton of experience and very thoughtful insights into the industry—specific to Indiana and surrounding states, but also just in general.

Quinton Comino: A lot of experience under her belt. She teaches students. She works with developers on missing middle, on apartments, on townhomes—all sorts of different buildings and designs. So this is gonna be a great episode. It’s wonderful to hear from someone boots-on-the-ground, super involved with the community, and building out a community.

Quinton Comino: One of the people that would be responsible for the neighborhoods that are going up that fit economically, that fit sustainably. And it’s just gonna be a really great episode to hear directly from someone involved in that. So thank you so much for listening.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: I am Darryl Williams-Dotson. I am the principal architect with WDI Architecture. We provide full-service architectural interior design services. We’ve been around for twenty-nine years. And our clients have been institutional clients, commercial clients, and affordable housing clients.

Quinton Comino: Yeah. So Indianapolis is a pretty big place as I understand it—as far as it’s a growing city. Particularly in the Midwest, it’s one of the more rapidly growing cities. I know Fort Wayne for a while actually was one of the most rapidly growing. Have you been involved with any of that sort of architecture, particularly around affordable housing? Because Indiana is—if, like, a place I grew up there, was raised in Northern Indiana—it’s an affordable place to live. It’s a great place to raise kids. So just curious to hear the sort of involvement you’ve had with the affordable housing and the growth Indianapolis and surrounding cities have had recently.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Well, I’d like to back up a little bit and tell you a little bit about my journey and how I got here. My journey began with the love of design that I inherited from my father. And he was very creative and I grew up surrounded by that creativity. And I always was drawing and painting on whatever else I could find around the house—cardboard, plywood, and even the walls. That passion eventually guided me into architecture.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: And that started out being technical such as drafting and working on building enclosures and managing construction administration. And when I moved to Indianapolis in ’92, I had the opportunity of working with a creative affordable housing designer by the name of Clyde E. Woods and Associates. And that experience was the pivoting point for me. He actually taught me the true meaning of architecture and designing with purpose.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: And that gave me the foundation that kind of shaped me on my approach to affordable housing and design today. And with that said, since I would say my first project was in 1991—it was a Muncie Housing Authority project. The entire industry neighborhood within that area, we provided the management and design services. So that was the footprint that started this back in—no, that was 2001.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: So since then, we of course have added to that footprint with several other housing projects with local developers as well as local community development corporations.

Quinton Comino: Okay. So when you say, like, a housing project—are these apartments, are they townhouses? Are these single-family residences, actual houses?

Darryl Williams-Dotson: A combination of everything from single-family to townhomes, apartment buildings, and condominiums. Through the—for I would say for the last twenty years, it’s been a well-rounded development effort to infill from missing-middle-type home enclosures to apartment buildings.

Quinton Comino: I’ve heard this term “missing middle” more recently. Maybe I’m just not up to speed or maybe this has been a term used for a while. Can you explain what that term is? Because it’s really not a common term that people would be familiar with.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: It’s this term that we’ve used in this industry to, I guess, to infill blighted areas.

Quinton Comino: Okay.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: For example, if a neighborhood starts to go down, it’s almost like a domino effect. If you have several homes starting to vacate or become abandoned, then it sort of will destroy the neighborhood. And what they call missing middle is that they have these programs where they give you encouragement to go in and start the infill. And once you start that process, normally the entire neighborhood will jump on board to fill in most of those vacant properties.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: So that’s what they consider missing middle, and it could be anything from a single-family home, duplex, or condominiums or fourplex. It’s just whatever it would take to fulfill that need for that location and in that environment.

Quinton Comino: Okay. So it’s like an attempt to gain some traction in a neighborhood that they’re trying to bring back up to speed. Right. Wow. And have you seen that work successfully?

Darryl Williams-Dotson: I’ve seen several developments. Even the city or the local metropolitan development—they have incentives that they advertise every now and then that actually promote that type of effort.

Quinton Comino: And is that an incentive that you would be on the receiving end?

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Any builder. If you have the qualifications to acquire the property at a very reasonable rate and infill, that would be something. And we have done this in the past. I have a few homes that I have approached that in that manner. Now I work with developers on the architectural end, but I do infill as well and purchase properties and infill as well.

Quinton Comino: Mhmm.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Now there’s government incentive for this missing-middle housing. Right? And do developers—are they eager to do those sorts of developments, or do they have their plates full with other things?

Darryl Williams-Dotson: There are programs within the government that focus on that piece of the puzzle. There are several different branches of government that will take on the high-profile developers that build affordable housing, but they mainly build market-rate with the percentage of affordable housing. But the missing middle—a lot of the times that is accommodating that 80% or less median income where it is actually a missing-middle piece that people from the neighborhood will take advantage of acquiring that property or that home.

Quinton Comino: Mhmm. And are they restricted on, like, what they can sell that for? Yes. Oh, wow. That’s so interesting.

Quinton Comino: So how long does it take? Because you’ve been—you said ’92 is when you came to Indianapolis?

Darryl Williams-Dotson: ’91.

Quinton Comino: ’91. And started working with Clyde and Associates.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: And Associates.

Quinton Comino: Okay. And I wanna hear—you said he taught you the true meaning of architecture. I wanna get to that. But first here, you’ve been in Indianapolis for thirty-plus years or what have you. Right? So how long does it take for that, like, renourishment? Almost think of it as when you’re trying to take a piece of property and bring it back to its natural state. Right? You plant things a certain way. You attract certain animals and what have you. And you’re intentionally nourishing that property to bring it back to a live state. So that’s kinda how I think of it a little bit with the missing middle. But how long does that take? Because to bring a property back to its natural state or to a well-growth sort of state, it can take years. Is there a similarity there?

Darryl Williams-Dotson: There is, and that depends on where you come into that spectrum. Single-family home with a lot that the city might sell to you for $3,500—of course that’s an easier turnaround. You can just have a floor plan and get a permit and build—of course that’s an easier process and build within two to three months. But when you’re dealing with funds such as CDBG or LIHTC funds, then there is a process because of the fact that you have to balance the market-rate with the affordable housing—meaning that you’re gonna get so much money in order to give you the incentive to build.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: And that is a process where you have to go through so many different layers of presentation, balancing with the city—seeing how much money you have, working with your planner to make sure you have enough affordable housing. And I have known that to take sometimes three to four years to even get to that point. And meanwhile you’re still spending money acquiring the property, hiring for environmental, hiring your engineers, hiring your designers, surveys—and sometimes it still falls through.

Quinton Comino: Wow. That’s not for the faint of heart.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: No. It is not. I’ve been through a few of those—not at the really high rate, but a few enough to sting a little.

Quinton Comino: Ah, yeah. Really. So yeah, that’s really interesting. And the government involvement to bring communities back to life—I love that and love to hear success stories, but it’s difficult. You’d have to have a really determined builder and an excellent team too. You can’t staple that together. You have to have a team that—we work together, we’ve done this for years—because there’s so many moving parts.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Definitely.

Quinton Comino: So how do you fit in that then? Are you someone they’re gonna reach out to early on in that process?

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Yes. By being an architect slash general contractor in the past, I think I can bring in so much value on a team where a lot of the developers or contractors will come to me early on, and they will have an eye on a property or they will have their eye on a building. And they will ask me to provide them with an assessment study. And from there we will assess the building and give them the best value—what they can do with the building, what are their limitations. If they need 50 units, I’ll say, hey—you’re not gonna get 50, but you could get 48. But you might need to add in some community space in order to get this particular grant, or you might need to add in the bicycle rack to get this particular grant. So I work with them early on to make sure that they get the best value for the land. And for raw land, of course, we’ll just tell them what their zoning requirements are and restrictions.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: And if they want to do housing and it’s not zoned for housing, they may not wanna go through a variance because that is a long process as well. So they might select a different property.

Quinton Comino: Yeah. I see. Yeah. Before they even purchase, they might reach out to you. Oh, wow.

Quinton Comino: So then you would have to be—and correct me if I’m wrong—you’d have to be really well-versed in the nuances of here’s what grants you can get with the state or with the city or county or what have you. I mean, and that’s some stuff that you just gotta know. You gotta be hands-in-it, in the dirt, in the trenches, so to speak, because otherwise you’re just not gonna know.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: A lot of the developers that have been in this field for some time, they are very astute with that information.

Quinton Comino: Mhmm. Yeah.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: They sometimes come to us with, I got this particular grant or that one—let’s see if we can blend that and see what we can come up with. So the developers have the upper hand on that part. I would say the architectural—we have the upper hand on what they can and cannot do—maximum space coverage limitation, height limitation, aesthetic limitations. Sometimes you have homeowners associations that are very close by, and they may have to abide by some of those rules as well. So we give them the aesthetic, sustainability, and environmental-ish answers to the problem.

Quinton Comino: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What they can and can’t do in all of those regards because that’s a lot. Have you noticed restrictions increasing over the years in those different areas or loosening up?

Darryl Williams-Dotson: I would say they should be—I’ve seen some things that go up that I have to shake my head on. So I think that the codes are getting to be more refined, and you have the national building code, you have your local building code, and then you have your HUD standards. So all of those together will give you the maximum guidelines that I think most of us should follow in designing and developing affordable housing.

Quinton Comino: Mhmm. So yeah, you’ve seen some stuff that makes you shake your head—why did that? But as far as the baseline, things haven’t deviated too much.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: No. Not too much.

Quinton Comino: Yeah. So that’s good to hear. But that may be just because Indiana—I’m here in Cocoa, Florida, and I’m from Indiana. I’m from Northern Indiana. But down here in Florida, the building codes and what have you—it’s just totally different. Indiana, you have counties—they don’t even require a permit. They don’t even have a building department. Hey, the fire inspector comes out—he inspects it. So it’s a totally different world down here, and it’s not getting any easier. So where you’re at—not that it’s a bad spot here in Florida—but you’re in a great spot up in Indiana. It seems, when I compare it to your ability to build without as many restrictions.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Well, yes. But you do have to—if you are receiving some of those grants and city funds, they do have a design review team that—not always are architects—and they do not let you outside of that box because they don’t know anything outside of that box. For Indiana, they want you to stay very sterile with your design concept that says Indiana. It’s not like Arizona where everything is new and they’re trying different concepts, designs, profiles, shapes. Indiana does not allow you to do that.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: We had one particular housing developer that came to us, and they wanted something a little different. And basically the city—just because they were getting city funds—they were asked to change the elevations to be more Indiana. That was heartbreaking because they wanted to set a brand for their company and what they had to offer.

Quinton Comino: That is really—so that’s super interesting. I have not heard of elevation restrictions beyond maybe some reasonable things. What do you mean when you say “Indiana”? I have a vision in my head, but are you able to elaborate on that a bit?

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Indiana is limestone brick, basically. Of course with the affordable housing, you’re now getting into some type of HardiePlank exterior cladding material. They don’t do very much stucco or Dryvit here. So they want to confine you to maybe those basic materials. And this particular owner did wanna do a little stucco at a higher elevation where it would have been nice the way they were profiling it. But they were asked to take that off. They had some different shape in their roof—it wasn’t your typical gable and hip. They wanted to be conservative on that, so they had to change that. So something along those lines.

Quinton Comino: Well, that’s really interesting. So that—not because I mostly hear about zoning restrictions and the frustrations behind that. And not too often have I heard about elevation restrictions, but that makes sense. And it explains why you see certain consistencies in certain geographical locations. That really makes sense.

Quinton Comino: Well, so to what you said earlier—where you learned the meaning of architecture—that holds value for you. I’d like to hear a little bit—what does that mean for you, learning the meaning of architecture? And it sounds like that was early in your career and that had a pretty big impact on you.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: We mentor students all the time coming from different schools—Ball State and Howard University. And a lot of these students, they only know what they know and they really learn architecture when they actually experience coming into a firm and getting to do actual projects. And when I came to Clyde, I had maybe four years experience and I thought I knew architecture—coming from Phoenix working four years and I came in there with my chest pointed out like I knew everything. And he let me do a project. He had me work on this housing project. He gave—he said, I’m gonna give you something simple—just a house. Just design it. Do as much as you wanna do, and then you give it to me.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Well, I did. And I was proud of it. And I gave—I sat on his desk and I left. I came back that morning—he had red-marked that drawing so badly that he almost had me in tears. And he said, I didn’t do that to hurt your feelings. I did that to show you how much you didn’t know. And he said, now we’re gonna do architecture. And so I stood beside him for the next two years or so, and he taught me architecture.

Quinton Comino: Wow. Is that common? With new students—did they—

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Very common. Very common.

Quinton Comino: Yeah. That sounds like a real privilege to have someone willing to say, alright—I’m gonna teach you a lot now.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Yes. Very—it’s a gift. And I always tell my students—I tell them, I said, once you have the knowledge, that is more valuable. You can take that anywhere.

Quinton Comino: Yeah. You say students—are these actual students in college?

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Yes. And high school. I’ve had some high school—I’ve picked up a few IPS students. They have a tech program and I pick up several of their students as well. And I’m interested in students. Sometimes I’ll bring in an entire class for them to shadow us for a few hours and see what we do—show them the newest technology. But most of my interns are college students.

Quinton Comino: Wow. That’s really great. And yeah, it would also keep you—not that your business wouldn’t—but it would also keep you on the edge of what’s coming and what the future of architecture is.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Yes.

Quinton Comino: So that’s really great.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Yes.

Quinton Comino: So what would you say then the future for WDI Architecture? What do you think that’s gonna look like? Do you stay in the region? You focus on a particular type of building? Focus more on teaching up the next generation?

Darryl Williams-Dotson: It’s a combination of a few things. Of course we always wanna teach the next generation. So that’s something I bring in—normally I have a minimum of four students a year. Either they’ll come in in the summer, fall, spring, etc.

Quinton Comino: Yeah.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: And I have one coming in this fall, and I have one already scheduled for the spring. So we’re on our way. Normally I have two at a time, but lately it’s ??? been difficult to get some of the students because after the last COVID pandemic, we lost a lot of individuals from this profession. So it’s hard finding people.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: But—well I would say that—and I can’t remember the other half of your question.

Quinton Comino: Just what the future looks like. You mentioned it was a bit of everything with teaching and if you’re gonna focus on a particular building style or actual housing or a region you wanna focus on.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Yes. I’m right now registered in four states. And I do have developers from a few states that are looking for me to joint-venture with them on a few housing projects. And some of them are still in Indiana, but they’re Northern Indiana. So I mean we work in South Bend and we work in other locations. So that’s no big deal to work—that’s just like going to another state, going up that part because a three-hour drive. I get to Ohio quicker. But yes, we focus in about five states with affordable housing and also with our architectural team as well. It’s not just affordable housing we work on—we work with, as I said, commercial clients as well as the institutional clients include education as well as K-12, higher and lower education.

Quinton Comino: Well, that’s great. I really appreciate it—appreciate you taking time to be on the show here. And I can tell you, you’re very thoughtful in your responses. You’re very thoughtful in what you do. It doesn’t sound like you do anything flippantly. It sounds like you have intention and deep intention with everything that you do.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Definitely. Yeah. You learn along the way that if you have a gift and you can share that and it doesn’t die with me, then that gift goes on and moves on. And that’s what I do with some of my students that I repeat—students that come back to me every year. I tell them, you know, working for a small firm you’re gonna learn a lot, but you also need to get that exposure from a larger firm that will give you a lot of the technology that I may not be prepping to at this time. And then you get that knowledge, and then you decide what you wanna do with a combination of that knowledge in developing your path in this profession.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: I offer three pieces of advice. First, start where you are with what you have. It’s never a perfect moment to—and waiting for that momentum, you may never get there. So I would say to start where you are. And even if it’s a smaller project, take that smaller project because that—as when I first started out, when I left Clyde—because Clyde actually passed away and I started my own business—I started with very small projects, but that gave me the word-of-mouth that she does this or she does that. But I didn’t wanna get stuck in doing those smaller projects, but I still took those on to put in my portfolio to get to that next step.

Quinton Comino: Yes.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: And don’t get trapped in the mom-and-pop-type scenario unless you wanna stay a one-man shop. Be helpful to make sure you’re always making momentum and building relationships to move to that next level.

Quinton Comino: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: That’s just something else I wanted to say.

Quinton Comino: That’s good. Yes. Start with what you have, and you’ll be able to build from there. Big companies didn’t come out the gate as a big company. They had to start—don’t despise humble beginnings.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Yes.

Quinton Comino: Yeah. Lovely. That’s so good. That’s so true. I appreciate that. That’s great insight.

Quinton Comino: And so—and you’re growing the expertise in the field and really helping people—architects—be very well-rounded, it sounds like, and not just only seeing—having a myopic vision. And it sounds like, yeah, you have the experience behind that—worked for different firms, now you’ve got your own and done a ton of different projects, it sounds like. So if someone’s interested—if anyone happens to be listening and they’re like, hey, I wanna have WDI on the next project that I’m doing, or I’d like to get in touch, or I wanna be a student—

Darryl Williams-Dotson: My website would give them a lot of information on some of the projects we work on as well as just contact our office. We are in the middle of moving into a larger space, though. So I would say October we should be—it’s gonna give us about 2,000 [sq ft] to spread out a little bit more than what we are now.

Quinton Comino: Yeah.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: So come visit our office, come drop in, shadow with us. You can go with our project managers on construction site projects or just sit at the table and watch them on the computer or conversations or meetings. Share your day with us. I mean, we’ve had several students that come in and they might share that along those lines. But get in contact with us. I’m easy to find—my phone number. I don’t know.

Quinton Comino: Yeah. WDIarchitect—everything’s there.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Email me if I can give them that as well.

Quinton Comino: Yeah. Sure. I can definitely have things in the show notes for everyone to see. That’s—well, thank you so much. Really, really appreciate the time today and appreciate what you’re doing in the industry and students as well—focusing on that. That’s really special. Not a lot of architects that I’ve met with yet have that level of involvement.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Oh, I’m surprised.

Quinton Comino: A lot. They’re all—like I said at the beginning of the call—our tech architects are interesting because they’ve got levels of—it sounds like a very dynamic job. It could be a very dynamic career.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: It is. I love every day of it.

Quinton Comino: Always changing. Yes. Yeah. Well, thank you, Miss Darryl Williams-Dotson with WDI Architecture. I appreciate your time on the show today.

Darryl Williams-Dotson: Thanks for having me.